Hey Alex und Andreas.
It was a bit harsh, but I knew you were stressed and in a particular context...
But when you say that you depend on us I totally agree, and I think it is the problem of our project : we are really busy, and our school isnt nice with us, nor comprehensiv . So we can't invest oureslves, and it will be difficult till the end. So we think that it is riksy to count only on us, cause we can't even manage to deal things for ourselves. That's why I said on a mail before that we thought it would be easier if you guys had something going on in Berlin, so that you could be activ, and not waiting for us ghosts to answer to questions we can't even think about some days... we could try from our side to give you some material, maybe during the holidays (cause we will have more time obviously).
Plus, I was thinking concretely on us four doing interviews with immigrates : us four with only one person, you two not understanding french, us four talking in English, than Caro and me talking in French with the person. And it's the same for the pictures : us four at someone's place, taking pictures of a stranger in his home, us talking in English about the pictures, the technical details...Wouldn't this all be ackward, and even more complicated than if we did it me and Caro, after talking precisely with you two to make clear every little detail of the result we want to get?
Sorry to rethink the whole thing, but I feel that something isn't necessarily right...I'm just proposing this point of view, cause I want to be practical, and I was picturing us four in these situations, and I thought it maybe didn't make that sense to do it this way...
Let's talk tommorrow, maybe between 12 and 2 ?
Bonne nuit a vous deux...
05 December 2007
30 November 2007
heyo laurent and caro!
so lets start with answering questions:
we absolutelly understand your point of wondering where to make the connection with germany. but, to say it very plain - we think there alreay is one and to create a new project on our side is not necessary - nor is it possible at his moment. i hope i can express myself in the right way, give me some time to explain:
when we thought of the project, for andreas and me it was clear that the project as we all worked it out, was only possible in france - as we wanted to work with a french symbol and we wanted to make an instalation in the streets. people in germany wouldnt know what the french symbol means, nor could they connect something with such an instalation in the street so we could not transvere it one to one to berlin.
so the germany connection in the project is: one: heimat.
we analyze the very german word with the people , try to tranlate it and let notgerman people speak about this very german - very international topic. two: we are german. we have a german approach to the french symbols and french state of things. we bring the outside point of view. in my eyes this is totally enough as a connection - we are a french-german team, marianne is french, heimat is german, we put both in a project and analize the terms with a strangers point of view and work with them.
there is no way to transfere this stage of te project to germany -but the outcome is very very interesting for germans. we - the germans- have a very ambivalent relation to our homecountry, to the word heimat too as it was missused and for some still has the taste of third reich propaganda. how do the french deal with this topic? our neighbours, our special friends (/as in german-french friendship), the french that have the same and different problems with imigration, that have such a different attitude to their state , an attitude we even envy in time - wouldnt it be nice to say - im proud to be german - once in a while. the french can do it without being missunderstood. this is very very interesting. andreas and i would like to analise the outcome of our parisproject with a berlin journalist, who is very enthusiastic about the whole project - she helped us to work out the questions too.
so it would be -germans go to france -create with french a project in paris - with will be analised in germany in realation to german state of things-
there is so much connection i can hardly follow.(even sylvia loves the idea)
next to this, there is no possibility for us here to create another project. for one as we dont have these symbols, two as we dont have the time to work out another concept and we will need all our attenion and love and strength to work on the paris project as you poor lads are much busier with other stuff, so that we will be able to work with the fotos and interview parts once we have them - they are the raw material, we can support you from germany working on it and you can support us from paris taking pix and doing interviews. that doesnt mean, we take over after the pictures are taken. only that we can comfortably work on the project in germany, we dont need to work in paris. oh i hope you get me right. i mean after we all worked out how we want to treat the outcomes of our fotosessions we can do a lot of work here and finish it, when you come to berlin. we only can not start before we got raw material.
and as another thing, i do have a project with is part of the immigration project. we might get to connect it with the paris project - maybe in the way we want to connect paris to germany. that the experiences and outcomes of this second project are used to work with in paris.
unfortunatelly it is too late now to book a bus for paris next weekend. at least not beginnig of next weekend.maybe for saturday -meaning we arrive early saturday morning - would that be possible?
i have to speak about it to andreas again too, if there is a point.
what do you think?does it make sense? it only makes sense if we have -lets say 4 women on which we can relie to take pix of and take interviews with. we need the technical stuff and we need the hat. is that possible?
andreas and i can stay longer too, its ok.
once we have the first 4 or 5 portraits and interviews we will be able to work on the next steps and we dont need to be there for every picture - we have absolut trust in you - your a so much better photographer than we are, i bet - but we should work on the first pictures together so we get a common idea of the look.
is that all ok with you?
if you say, there is no way for us to organize it till next weekend 7.th./8th. then we will have to come on the weekend after. no point in rushing things if then we can not work effectively. i was getting a bit panicky cause i realized that we are running out of time and once we made the concept we will have to wait for "raw material" to go on working.
could we speak via skipe tomorrow? i am aware there are so many questions still not answered and ideas still not discussed - would it be possible for you two to get together in front of the computer tomorrow evening and i and andreas get together and we can work it out precisly?
please, let us know what you think right away anyway, even before we skipe- so we can maybe book a bus or so.
let me know too when would be good for you to skipe.
o know im stressing - please forgive me - once we get the chance to talk im sure it will all be fine!
lot of love from berlin
little alex und der grosse andreas
so lets start with answering questions:
we absolutelly understand your point of wondering where to make the connection with germany. but, to say it very plain - we think there alreay is one and to create a new project on our side is not necessary - nor is it possible at his moment. i hope i can express myself in the right way, give me some time to explain:
when we thought of the project, for andreas and me it was clear that the project as we all worked it out, was only possible in france - as we wanted to work with a french symbol and we wanted to make an instalation in the streets. people in germany wouldnt know what the french symbol means, nor could they connect something with such an instalation in the street so we could not transvere it one to one to berlin.
so the germany connection in the project is: one: heimat.
we analyze the very german word with the people , try to tranlate it and let notgerman people speak about this very german - very international topic. two: we are german. we have a german approach to the french symbols and french state of things. we bring the outside point of view. in my eyes this is totally enough as a connection - we are a french-german team, marianne is french, heimat is german, we put both in a project and analize the terms with a strangers point of view and work with them.
there is no way to transfere this stage of te project to germany -but the outcome is very very interesting for germans. we - the germans- have a very ambivalent relation to our homecountry, to the word heimat too as it was missused and for some still has the taste of third reich propaganda. how do the french deal with this topic? our neighbours, our special friends (/as in german-french friendship), the french that have the same and different problems with imigration, that have such a different attitude to their state , an attitude we even envy in time - wouldnt it be nice to say - im proud to be german - once in a while. the french can do it without being missunderstood. this is very very interesting. andreas and i would like to analise the outcome of our parisproject with a berlin journalist, who is very enthusiastic about the whole project - she helped us to work out the questions too.
so it would be -germans go to france -create with french a project in paris - with will be analised in germany in realation to german state of things-
there is so much connection i can hardly follow.(even sylvia loves the idea)
next to this, there is no possibility for us here to create another project. for one as we dont have these symbols, two as we dont have the time to work out another concept and we will need all our attenion and love and strength to work on the paris project as you poor lads are much busier with other stuff, so that we will be able to work with the fotos and interview parts once we have them - they are the raw material, we can support you from germany working on it and you can support us from paris taking pix and doing interviews. that doesnt mean, we take over after the pictures are taken. only that we can comfortably work on the project in germany, we dont need to work in paris. oh i hope you get me right. i mean after we all worked out how we want to treat the outcomes of our fotosessions we can do a lot of work here and finish it, when you come to berlin. we only can not start before we got raw material.
and as another thing, i do have a project with is part of the immigration project. we might get to connect it with the paris project - maybe in the way we want to connect paris to germany. that the experiences and outcomes of this second project are used to work with in paris.
unfortunatelly it is too late now to book a bus for paris next weekend. at least not beginnig of next weekend.maybe for saturday -meaning we arrive early saturday morning - would that be possible?
i have to speak about it to andreas again too, if there is a point.
what do you think?does it make sense? it only makes sense if we have -lets say 4 women on which we can relie to take pix of and take interviews with. we need the technical stuff and we need the hat. is that possible?
andreas and i can stay longer too, its ok.
once we have the first 4 or 5 portraits and interviews we will be able to work on the next steps and we dont need to be there for every picture - we have absolut trust in you - your a so much better photographer than we are, i bet - but we should work on the first pictures together so we get a common idea of the look.
is that all ok with you?
if you say, there is no way for us to organize it till next weekend 7.th./8th. then we will have to come on the weekend after. no point in rushing things if then we can not work effectively. i was getting a bit panicky cause i realized that we are running out of time and once we made the concept we will have to wait for "raw material" to go on working.
could we speak via skipe tomorrow? i am aware there are so many questions still not answered and ideas still not discussed - would it be possible for you two to get together in front of the computer tomorrow evening and i and andreas get together and we can work it out precisly?
please, let us know what you think right away anyway, even before we skipe- so we can maybe book a bus or so.
let me know too when would be good for you to skipe.
o know im stressing - please forgive me - once we get the chance to talk im sure it will all be fine!
lot of love from berlin
little alex und der grosse andreas
Hey you guys,
we are really sorry, we know that we took time to answer,and that its a damage for the project, but this is a special situation for us, we are stuck between the envy of doing something great and the impossibility of getting our mind focused on only this topic...we really would have loved to think about immigration every day of school, but unfortunately this hasn't been possible, since we didn't even get to just sleep normally.
You didn't answer on our questions, with the most important point for us : what can we do to create a parallel with germany?, because we think this is a part of all the difficulty of the project : cause we could take care of the french part, and give our point of view, and link it with yours in Germany,and the german issues on this topic. We feel that we are focusing on the Marianne thing, and that there is an empty space on the german side, that creates a fragile (because single )proposition.
We are willing to organise the whole thing next week end, but we are not going to get everything we wanted on only one week end (and you know it of course) : this could be a way of getting things started on a pragmatic sense..
But if you had a parallel project on your side, we could deal this from Paris,and you from Berlin, and make the projects meet each other (cause we thought it was the point of the general project of la cité).
We don't want to change everything in the minute, and screw all that we thought together, but just to reconsider it a little bit, to see what is the best thing to do.
Let's speak by mail tomorrow.
Cheers to you two.
Laurent et Caro.
we are really sorry, we know that we took time to answer,and that its a damage for the project, but this is a special situation for us, we are stuck between the envy of doing something great and the impossibility of getting our mind focused on only this topic...we really would have loved to think about immigration every day of school, but unfortunately this hasn't been possible, since we didn't even get to just sleep normally.
You didn't answer on our questions, with the most important point for us : what can we do to create a parallel with germany?, because we think this is a part of all the difficulty of the project : cause we could take care of the french part, and give our point of view, and link it with yours in Germany,and the german issues on this topic. We feel that we are focusing on the Marianne thing, and that there is an empty space on the german side, that creates a fragile (because single )proposition.
We are willing to organise the whole thing next week end, but we are not going to get everything we wanted on only one week end (and you know it of course) : this could be a way of getting things started on a pragmatic sense..
But if you had a parallel project on your side, we could deal this from Paris,and you from Berlin, and make the projects meet each other (cause we thought it was the point of the general project of la cité).
We don't want to change everything in the minute, and screw all that we thought together, but just to reconsider it a little bit, to see what is the best thing to do.
Let's speak by mail tomorrow.
Cheers to you two.
Laurent et Caro.
21 November 2007
our concept and plans!
salut laurent and caro!
great news! i wrote to sylvia, introduced her to our project, made a thesis and asked her for support (informativ and financial). she was enthusiastic!
andreas and i werent lazy over the last weeks and i would like to present you our "concept"
please let us know what you think about it, what we could improve, share your thoughts with us.
we have worked on the interview with the journalist andreas worked with on the heimat project they did with this school last year.
she helped us with the structure and questions.
i will present the questions we worked out first and then what we developed for the fotos:
- when visiting the person to be interviewed in their house, introducing the project "heimat" and explaining the term heimat, so not to interupt the flow of conversation when we come to the question about heimat.
these are rules the journalist gave us:
- start of conversation, warming up phase, with concise questions (revering to immediate environment of interviewed person), later : abstract questions (what menas heimat to you? if france was a woman...)
- always ask open questions: - no possibility to answer with no or yes
- no assistence for answers or hints to what the answer might be
- no questions giving a choise : "is it .... or maybe ....?"
- only one question at a time
- meet the interviewpartner on an even level: show and communicate your openness, respect but not shy, sensere interest. very easy if you are, she says - bodylanguage, eyecontact
of course we know that but i can imagine to be so nervous in the strange situation and environment, that it is good to keep in mind
questions:
where are you from? (do your ancetors come from, where are your roots)
how long have you been living in paris for?
how did you get to paris, how did you arrive?
where was your first place of residence/ habitation (in town) ?
how do you feel in your flat/house? (feeling inside and towards the place?)
how do you feel in your area/quater? (is your family living here/ do you have kids in paris?)
Do you feel home here?
what means "chez soi" for you?
what means "heimat" to you ?
(these two questions we put after another on purpose, so that the answerer might make a connection between them themselfes. separatelly many immigrants might answer : "chez soi, thats my house, my quater, where my family lives - heimat, thats my homecountry. " we think that chez soi and heimat are very close terms and maybe the answerer might realize the ambivalence in connecting the two with places so far appart?)
kann you tell us, where your heimat is?
when you were a child, did heimat mean something else for you then it does now? did the expression/meaning chance?
would you sing us a french song? what ever comes to your mind first (alternativelly, if they dont sing - poem, saying ...)
thank you very much! would you now sing a song from your mothercountry?(in case of immigrants) (poem, saying if they picked this)
(we thought it might be great as material for soundcollages. interesting what french songs immigrants pick first - tombe la chemise/marseillaise/la vie en rose???, to record them sing maybe with a foreign accent, hear if their voice, emotion, expression changes when they sing songs from home)
if france was a woman, what would she look like? how do you imagine her?
how would you call her?
what would you say to her?
(any other ideas for questions?)
how do you say "mama" in your motherlanguage?(french too)
fotoconcept:
we create the setting, the visual frame of the pictures:
- place (home of person, chez soi)
- light (inscenated, detactable, not natural)
- display detail ( what you see in the picture, how close (like the frame) (maybe half a meter away, if person sits, we see head, shoulders, chest)
- which backround and how much we see of it, how far away etc. (probably a rather still backround (e.g. wall, tapestry) but clearly recognisable as home of person - maybe part of furniture visible)
- mariannes hat (its got to look good and dignified - dark red, thick, good material , maybe theater/vintage??)
the had will only be an accessoir, maybe only visable on the second look, not in the center of attention)
-way of putting in scene
aim: strong serial character of pictures, not indidual, unconnected portraits
people are free what to do with the hat - put it on, eat it up, step onto it,
put them selfes in scene how they want, how they feel
they choose who they are, how they are, what they look like
in this stage people might not know what to do at first. other then in the interview we could assist them finding ideas.
we should do pix after the interview, so people arent shy and at ease with us being around
interview people:
women of every kind and couleur
- little girls, immigrants, old parisiens, prostituts, schooldirectors, mothers, daughters,
chiniese, arab, indian, african, french, dutch, american?, from the banglieu and the quiet parts of town
thats the idea
now important questions from us to you, please answer them as fast as you can:
how do you like the interview concept, how the fotoconcept? alterations, new ideas?
how do you like the questions, other ideas?
did you develop other ideas reverling the project?
how and where do we get our interview partners - possibilities of getting in contact?
what technic do you have, can you get - light, camera, microphone.
what do we have to bring?
we would like to come for a long weekend from 7. - 9th or 10th december.
it is pretty much the only weekend possible for us in december, and we think its a great date, as its enough time to organize what we need and it leaves us enough time afterwards to work on what comes out of it, which will be the raw material to our actual work.
is that a good time for you?
till that day we should have organized some sponsorship.#
we dont need to take all the pictures and interview at that time - it wouldnt be possible, but some, so we find an common visual and conceptual idea.
can you find 4,5,6 people we could interview and take pics of? maybe for the pix not only mothers ???? we have to think about that again. and talk about it. but in any case they need to have strong faces and interesting personalities so we get strong images.
can you organize mariannes hat? a good one, so that they dont look like sarkozy fans (we saw some wearing them...oioioi)
it would be great if you could make some interviews before we arrive - there will be many things we didnt think of and that will not work as we thought. we could work much more effective if we can learn from your experiences. try to take pictures. it will be very hard to work in a strange house with strangers.
please please you wonderful, answer to all of these questions, we are excitedly waiting for your answers.
i will finnaly scan the ideas we had for putting in scene, so you can imagine whats in our heads.
all our love from germany, lets speak soon!!!
Alex (und andreas!)
great news! i wrote to sylvia, introduced her to our project, made a thesis and asked her for support (informativ and financial). she was enthusiastic!
andreas and i werent lazy over the last weeks and i would like to present you our "concept"
please let us know what you think about it, what we could improve, share your thoughts with us.
we have worked on the interview with the journalist andreas worked with on the heimat project they did with this school last year.
she helped us with the structure and questions.
i will present the questions we worked out first and then what we developed for the fotos:
- when visiting the person to be interviewed in their house, introducing the project "heimat" and explaining the term heimat, so not to interupt the flow of conversation when we come to the question about heimat.
these are rules the journalist gave us:
- start of conversation, warming up phase, with concise questions (revering to immediate environment of interviewed person), later : abstract questions (what menas heimat to you? if france was a woman...)
- always ask open questions: - no possibility to answer with no or yes
- no assistence for answers or hints to what the answer might be
- no questions giving a choise : "is it .... or maybe ....?"
- only one question at a time
- meet the interviewpartner on an even level: show and communicate your openness, respect but not shy, sensere interest. very easy if you are, she says - bodylanguage, eyecontact
of course we know that but i can imagine to be so nervous in the strange situation and environment, that it is good to keep in mind
questions:
where are you from? (do your ancetors come from, where are your roots)
how long have you been living in paris for?
how did you get to paris, how did you arrive?
where was your first place of residence/ habitation (in town) ?
how do you feel in your flat/house? (feeling inside and towards the place?)
how do you feel in your area/quater? (is your family living here/ do you have kids in paris?)
Do you feel home here?
what means "chez soi" for you?
what means "heimat" to you ?
(these two questions we put after another on purpose, so that the answerer might make a connection between them themselfes. separatelly many immigrants might answer : "chez soi, thats my house, my quater, where my family lives - heimat, thats my homecountry. " we think that chez soi and heimat are very close terms and maybe the answerer might realize the ambivalence in connecting the two with places so far appart?)
kann you tell us, where your heimat is?
when you were a child, did heimat mean something else for you then it does now? did the expression/meaning chance?
would you sing us a french song? what ever comes to your mind first (alternativelly, if they dont sing - poem, saying ...)
thank you very much! would you now sing a song from your mothercountry?(in case of immigrants) (poem, saying if they picked this)
(we thought it might be great as material for soundcollages. interesting what french songs immigrants pick first - tombe la chemise/marseillaise/la vie en rose???, to record them sing maybe with a foreign accent, hear if their voice, emotion, expression changes when they sing songs from home)
if france was a woman, what would she look like? how do you imagine her?
how would you call her?
what would you say to her?
(any other ideas for questions?)
how do you say "mama" in your motherlanguage?(french too)
fotoconcept:
we create the setting, the visual frame of the pictures:
- place (home of person, chez soi)
- light (inscenated, detactable, not natural)
- display detail ( what you see in the picture, how close (like the frame) (maybe half a meter away, if person sits, we see head, shoulders, chest)
- which backround and how much we see of it, how far away etc. (probably a rather still backround (e.g. wall, tapestry) but clearly recognisable as home of person - maybe part of furniture visible)
- mariannes hat (its got to look good and dignified - dark red, thick, good material , maybe theater/vintage??)
the had will only be an accessoir, maybe only visable on the second look, not in the center of attention)
-way of putting in scene
aim: strong serial character of pictures, not indidual, unconnected portraits
people are free what to do with the hat - put it on, eat it up, step onto it,
put them selfes in scene how they want, how they feel
they choose who they are, how they are, what they look like
in this stage people might not know what to do at first. other then in the interview we could assist them finding ideas.
we should do pix after the interview, so people arent shy and at ease with us being around
interview people:
women of every kind and couleur
- little girls, immigrants, old parisiens, prostituts, schooldirectors, mothers, daughters,
chiniese, arab, indian, african, french, dutch, american?, from the banglieu and the quiet parts of town
thats the idea
now important questions from us to you, please answer them as fast as you can:
how do you like the interview concept, how the fotoconcept? alterations, new ideas?
how do you like the questions, other ideas?
did you develop other ideas reverling the project?
how and where do we get our interview partners - possibilities of getting in contact?
what technic do you have, can you get - light, camera, microphone.
what do we have to bring?
we would like to come for a long weekend from 7. - 9th or 10th december.
it is pretty much the only weekend possible for us in december, and we think its a great date, as its enough time to organize what we need and it leaves us enough time afterwards to work on what comes out of it, which will be the raw material to our actual work.
is that a good time for you?
till that day we should have organized some sponsorship.#
we dont need to take all the pictures and interview at that time - it wouldnt be possible, but some, so we find an common visual and conceptual idea.
can you find 4,5,6 people we could interview and take pics of? maybe for the pix not only mothers ???? we have to think about that again. and talk about it. but in any case they need to have strong faces and interesting personalities so we get strong images.
can you organize mariannes hat? a good one, so that they dont look like sarkozy fans (we saw some wearing them...oioioi)
it would be great if you could make some interviews before we arrive - there will be many things we didnt think of and that will not work as we thought. we could work much more effective if we can learn from your experiences. try to take pictures. it will be very hard to work in a strange house with strangers.
please please you wonderful, answer to all of these questions, we are excitedly waiting for your answers.
i will finnaly scan the ideas we had for putting in scene, so you can imagine whats in our heads.
all our love from germany, lets speak soon!!!
Alex (und andreas!)
18 November 2007
Marianne-Germania
you can download an audiofile (realplayer)
under the following link ->
http://www.br-online.de/wissen-bildung/collegeradio/medien/franzoesisch/coup03/audio/
under the following link ->
http://www.br-online.de/wissen-bildung/collegeradio/medien/franzoesisch/coup03/audio/
17 November 2007
Madame La Présidente : exposition de portraits photographiques
Festival : Les Rencontres d'Arles 2007
... nevertheless some examples one can learn from (how to deal with symbols or not)
http://artaddiction.canalblog.com/albums/madame_la_presidente___exposition_de_portraits_photographiques/index.html
... nevertheless some examples one can learn from (how to deal with symbols or not)
http://artaddiction.canalblog.com/albums/madame_la_presidente___exposition_de_portraits_photographiques/index.html
Heimat
HEIMAT:
Gefühl der Zugehörigkeit oder räumliche Gegebenheit.
Eine konkrete Utopie? Vom Menschen aktiv gestaltet und
prägend für Identität, Lebenseinstellung und Weltauffassung.
Begriff, der nur in der deutschen Sprache existiert.
HEIMAT:
Notion qui n'existe qu'en langue allemande.
Définition approximative: patrie f.; (Heimatland) pays (natal);
terroir; appartenance; origine; chez-soi. Définition possible:
sentiment d'appartenance culturelle ou géographique.
Utopie concrète? Concept créé par l'humain formateur d'identité,
d'attitude face à la vie et de conception du monde.
(S.6)
HEIMATFABRIK
Über die Produktion von Heimat/De la production de patrie
Expo02 Suisse
2002 Verlag Niggli AG Sulgen|Zürich
ISBN 3-7212-0456-5
Gefühl der Zugehörigkeit oder räumliche Gegebenheit.
Eine konkrete Utopie? Vom Menschen aktiv gestaltet und
prägend für Identität, Lebenseinstellung und Weltauffassung.
Begriff, der nur in der deutschen Sprache existiert.
HEIMAT:
Notion qui n'existe qu'en langue allemande.
Définition approximative: patrie f.; (Heimatland) pays (natal);
terroir; appartenance; origine; chez-soi. Définition possible:
sentiment d'appartenance culturelle ou géographique.
Utopie concrète? Concept créé par l'humain formateur d'identité,
d'attitude face à la vie et de conception du monde.
(S.6)
HEIMATFABRIK
Über die Produktion von Heimat/De la production de patrie
Expo02 Suisse
2002 Verlag Niggli AG Sulgen|Zürich
ISBN 3-7212-0456-5
13 November 2007
This is quite interesting : these are two cd covers of french rap music using la Marianne.
One is using the Delacroix painting, but with a black Marianne.
The other one is using the satue wich stands in every city hall, and the text says " Rap had to say it, the republic had to hear it", and then " Marianne, listen to the streets".
Hey you guys,
I hope this week back in town was good for you, I wonder how you have digested this whole week...
Here we got lot of work to do, its a bit of a hard time, but its gonna calm down...
I thought quite a lot on our topic, and started talking to people around me a little bit,especially with some friends who still live in the suburb where I used to live, to start to see how to organise some talks with the guys of the neighborood. I would really like to ask the question "if France was a women, who would she be, what would she look like, how would you call her,
what would you say to her..." to try to create an imaginary dialog between them and France, but not in a romantic-conceptual way, but with a concrete approach. This would be a start.
I also thought a lot about the concept of "adoption country", but still in the mother-thing point of view. I was wondering about the feelings of an adopt child towards his parents, his mother, but also his genetic mother, his home land...
I made some parallel between adopt child, and this new generation of immigrants kids : an adopt kid who's mother doesn't show him love, and attention, even more than to her "real" children, is a lost kid. Its exactly what these suburb kids are living right now. So burning cars is just a way to say "hey im here" like every angry and frustrated kid does.
So I thought it could be interesting to ask also some questions to adopt child, and have some precise feelings and thoughts on this subject.
What about you? had some Marianne brainstormiiiing?
Talk to you soon. Cheers.
Laurent.
I hope this week back in town was good for you, I wonder how you have digested this whole week...
Here we got lot of work to do, its a bit of a hard time, but its gonna calm down...
I thought quite a lot on our topic, and started talking to people around me a little bit,especially with some friends who still live in the suburb where I used to live, to start to see how to organise some talks with the guys of the neighborood. I would really like to ask the question "if France was a women, who would she be, what would she look like, how would you call her,
what would you say to her..." to try to create an imaginary dialog between them and France, but not in a romantic-conceptual way, but with a concrete approach. This would be a start.
I also thought a lot about the concept of "adoption country", but still in the mother-thing point of view. I was wondering about the feelings of an adopt child towards his parents, his mother, but also his genetic mother, his home land...
I made some parallel between adopt child, and this new generation of immigrants kids : an adopt kid who's mother doesn't show him love, and attention, even more than to her "real" children, is a lost kid. Its exactly what these suburb kids are living right now. So burning cars is just a way to say "hey im here" like every angry and frustrated kid does.
So I thought it could be interesting to ask also some questions to adopt child, and have some precise feelings and thoughts on this subject.
What about you? had some Marianne brainstormiiiing?
Talk to you soon. Cheers.
Laurent.
answer to laurents mail
hey laurent,
thank you very much for your ideas - did you post them on the block? did you see what we put there and what do you think about it?
i think it would be great to start the concise discussion on this platform and maybe check it everyday or every second so we can get the stone rollin together. andreas and i talked a lot bout the topic, to our professor too and he likes the mother-idea. as well we took very bad pictures already to try and find a way of inscenating them. we think we found something we´re both happy with, we will put some on the block an example of what it might look like when we got the right light and someone whos a better fotograf than us. are you good? oh please please be good! i wrote to sylvia gehlert to ask for her surport, andreas and i will talk to a journalist in the next days to get a professional idea of making an interview.
by the way - i really like your ideas and questions. i was wondering how we could get the pix and the interview together - make sure we dont work on them seperatly and then find, that they developed in different direction, fall apart. i guess we have keep in mind, that the visuel part and the audio part have to creat one work, although they treat different aspects.
oh and we will try to get the light we need and work more concise on our visuel idea - find someone with relatives in berlin, visiting them at home and taking pictures under these unknown surcomstances, so there are no bad surprises when we actually do it in paris. plus our professor wants us to visualize our ideas till the 28.th of november so we got to have something in berlin, as we wont come to paris before.
alright, thanx again, im looking forward to whats gonna happen - your skip adress doesnt work andreas says
and keep us informed. paris was great, looking forward to coming back!
all the best Alex
thank you very much for your ideas - did you post them on the block? did you see what we put there and what do you think about it?
i think it would be great to start the concise discussion on this platform and maybe check it everyday or every second so we can get the stone rollin together. andreas and i talked a lot bout the topic, to our professor too and he likes the mother-idea. as well we took very bad pictures already to try and find a way of inscenating them. we think we found something we´re both happy with, we will put some on the block an example of what it might look like when we got the right light and someone whos a better fotograf than us. are you good? oh please please be good! i wrote to sylvia gehlert to ask for her surport, andreas and i will talk to a journalist in the next days to get a professional idea of making an interview.
by the way - i really like your ideas and questions. i was wondering how we could get the pix and the interview together - make sure we dont work on them seperatly and then find, that they developed in different direction, fall apart. i guess we have keep in mind, that the visuel part and the audio part have to creat one work, although they treat different aspects.
oh and we will try to get the light we need and work more concise on our visuel idea - find someone with relatives in berlin, visiting them at home and taking pictures under these unknown surcomstances, so there are no bad surprises when we actually do it in paris. plus our professor wants us to visualize our ideas till the 28.th of november so we got to have something in berlin, as we wont come to paris before.
alright, thanx again, im looking forward to whats gonna happen - your skip adress doesnt work andreas says
and keep us informed. paris was great, looking forward to coming back!
all the best Alex
11 November 2007
ideas in progress
for me "heimat" is not a screen for desire/aspiration.
everyday life creates "heimat": am i free to chose my own way
or is there somebody who wants to constrict me...?
"heimat" is a process in wich everybody is involved in -- the place
where i live has allready a structure but it is characterized
by people wich are living there.
the french state is symbolized by a women...
i´d like to know what do women in paris think about "patrie-heimat"?
with the statements of these interviewed persons one could create
text- and/or audio installations in public space.
combinate statements with photos of the interviewed women
printed as postcards could be an other possibility.
09 November 2007
not a motherpicture
the following three pictures are examples for what i ment with - humorous, edgy, bold, inscenated. i only mean the way they are done
not a motherpicture
these are pix of jürgen teller, as an example what i mean with homour in the pictures
my idea of concept - in short
hey you happy people here and there! as time is running fast we need to make up our minds how exactly we want to do our project. to work out a plan i would like to invite everyone of us to give his and her own idea of how we could do it, so we know what we want to discuss about. ill try to bring it to a point quick:
heimat, a word that only exists in german, rather a concept than a place - what is it, what does it mean to you? this is what we want to find out.
in france there is the expression la mère partrie - it doesnt only express what your home country can mean to you - its a concise person, a savior, provider, guide, a collective mother.
being home kann mean - feel that you belong, loved, respected, secure, just like with a mother.
in almost every culture group, especially the ones a mayority of the french immigrants belongs to, the mother is untouchable, holy and like heimat for many she is intrinsically tied to their own identity.
the stranger you feel at a place, the stronger is your need for a place you belong to.the further aways this place is, the more fage is the idea of it, people tend to glorify their far away heimat.
many kids of immigrants, first or second generation claim their parents birthplace as their heimat, although many of them have never been there. oftentimes this place has changed and only exists in the memory and fantasy of the ones that left it a long time ago. children of immigrants oftentimes dont feel home in their birthcountry because they are not treated as equal citizens allthough they have - from birth the same rights and duties as all citizens. the term : "ausländer", alien or foreigner is simply wrong for people who have been born and raised in the country they live in. calling this group ausländer means judging by blood and not national right. may immigrants in second generation feel too that their blood is much more important then their nationality. how can you feel home if you are told you are a stranger.
to find out what heimat means to them, we want to interview women of all couleur, ethnicity and age, make a soundcollage of this and place it all over paris.
for the photos i imagine us looking for women of all couleur and ethnicity that have a strong charisma and very intresting personality and are unmistakably recognisable as mothers - this will be part of our inscenation too. i like the idea to inscenate them very proud and very individuel. strong women, funny, strict, how every they are. the fotos could be taken in their homes, where they are secure and we are outsiders. they would either wear the head of marianne - without looking stupid, rather like on an old painting or a coin - or any other typical symbol of the french state to make visible that in a way -they all are france. the portrait would show their face and upper chest and few of the backround. they would sit or stand how and where they want and they could choose which french symbol they want and what to do with it. i think the pictures need to be very strong and should be taken with a lot of humour, a bit bold, and with a certain edge - not to clean and pretty. otherwise we might be mistaken for moralist. i guess we could avoid that by making a clear concept, by maybe overinscenating and by letting the women paly with their role. we should look at my portrait series to find out what look we want to create. i downloaded some pix from the internet - they dont really fit, but maybe you get an idea of what i mean.
these portraits of maybe ten women would be printed as postcards and put into stands all over paris in combination with the sound collage. everyone can pick theyre mama and no mater how different they are, everyone is france in a way. in combination with the sound collage about heimat, people can draw their own conclusion from the project.
i hope i can upload some pix - it would be great if we could find a consense till tuesday, so we can start organizing.
wow, this was long!
hope to hear from you soon!
love Alex
heimat, a word that only exists in german, rather a concept than a place - what is it, what does it mean to you? this is what we want to find out.
in france there is the expression la mère partrie - it doesnt only express what your home country can mean to you - its a concise person, a savior, provider, guide, a collective mother.
being home kann mean - feel that you belong, loved, respected, secure, just like with a mother.
in almost every culture group, especially the ones a mayority of the french immigrants belongs to, the mother is untouchable, holy and like heimat for many she is intrinsically tied to their own identity.
the stranger you feel at a place, the stronger is your need for a place you belong to.the further aways this place is, the more fage is the idea of it, people tend to glorify their far away heimat.
many kids of immigrants, first or second generation claim their parents birthplace as their heimat, although many of them have never been there. oftentimes this place has changed and only exists in the memory and fantasy of the ones that left it a long time ago. children of immigrants oftentimes dont feel home in their birthcountry because they are not treated as equal citizens allthough they have - from birth the same rights and duties as all citizens. the term : "ausländer", alien or foreigner is simply wrong for people who have been born and raised in the country they live in. calling this group ausländer means judging by blood and not national right. may immigrants in second generation feel too that their blood is much more important then their nationality. how can you feel home if you are told you are a stranger.
to find out what heimat means to them, we want to interview women of all couleur, ethnicity and age, make a soundcollage of this and place it all over paris.
for the photos i imagine us looking for women of all couleur and ethnicity that have a strong charisma and very intresting personality and are unmistakably recognisable as mothers - this will be part of our inscenation too. i like the idea to inscenate them very proud and very individuel. strong women, funny, strict, how every they are. the fotos could be taken in their homes, where they are secure and we are outsiders. they would either wear the head of marianne - without looking stupid, rather like on an old painting or a coin - or any other typical symbol of the french state to make visible that in a way -they all are france. the portrait would show their face and upper chest and few of the backround. they would sit or stand how and where they want and they could choose which french symbol they want and what to do with it. i think the pictures need to be very strong and should be taken with a lot of humour, a bit bold, and with a certain edge - not to clean and pretty. otherwise we might be mistaken for moralist. i guess we could avoid that by making a clear concept, by maybe overinscenating and by letting the women paly with their role. we should look at my portrait series to find out what look we want to create. i downloaded some pix from the internet - they dont really fit, but maybe you get an idea of what i mean.
these portraits of maybe ten women would be printed as postcards and put into stands all over paris in combination with the sound collage. everyone can pick theyre mama and no mater how different they are, everyone is france in a way. in combination with the sound collage about heimat, people can draw their own conclusion from the project.
i hope i can upload some pix - it would be great if we could find a consense till tuesday, so we can start organizing.
wow, this was long!
hope to hear from you soon!
love Alex
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